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Free will and the Power of Prayer.

socrates
I have often heard people say that God gave us free will. Many of these same people are firm believers in the Power of Prayer.

My question is quite simple...how can free will coincide with prayer?

If prayer does have power, then where does this idea of free will come from? Anytime God takes an action based on prayer, someone's free will has been violated. Absolute Free Will CANNOT exist when a third party directly intervenes. If we do not have Absolute Free Will, then what boundaries are placed on our Relative Free Will?

Please include and references that you find usefull in answering this question.

Andrew

Comments:

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According to Andrew Murray the Father seeks worshippers. Our worship satisfies His loving heart and is a joy to Him. Prayer is worship of the Father. It acknowledges His diety. We focus on prayer as a magical wish list of gimmes and we are not praying or worshipping, we are wanting. Even Christ ended prayer with not my will but thine. It was an acknowledgment of the place the Father had in His life. Ourfree will is not so much the freedom to live or act as we want as it is the freedom to worship in Spirit and truth or not. Free will is God allowing us to choose to live in harmony with Him or to live without Him, not our choosing the outcome of events based upon our desires. ï»¿1 John 4:7–21ï»¿ In this passage there occurs what is probably the greatest single statement about God in the whole Bible, that God is love. It is amazing how many doors that single statement unlocks and how many questions it answers. It is the explanation of free-will. Unless love is a free response it is not love. Had God been only law he could have created a world in which men moved like automata, having no more choice than a machine. But, if God had made men like that, there would have been no possibility of a personal relationship between him and them. Love is of necessity the free response of the heart; and, therefore, God, by a deliberate act of self-limitation, had to endow men with free will. Quoted from: The letters of John and Jude. 2000, c1976 (W. Barclay, lecturer in the University of Glasgow, Ed.). The Westminster Press: Philadelphia Not sure how many references you would like but Barclay says it well. (Though I don't always agree with him) ï»¿2 Corinthians 3:12–18ï»¿ Sometimes it is the veil of the unteachable spirit. As the Scots saying has it, “ï»¿There’s none so blind as those who winna see.ï»¿” The best teacher on earth cannot teach the man who knows it all already and does not wish to learn. God gave us free will, and, if we insist upon our own way, we cannot learn his. Our prayer life is not in contradiction with free will but is instead a confirmation. We are free to love God and part of that love is worship and acknowedgement. OR we are free not to love God and not worship nor acknowledge Him. There are really only two choices but because of the Free Will given to us by God we can make the choice.

Bob
8/12/2009 11:57:09 AM

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No one is absolutely free, but God. Any freedom I may have, I have as a gift. It is true that if God answers my prayer, He may be thereby modifying someone else's freedom, but He is just as free to do this, and does so, without my involvement. Also, there are countless ways for me to limit someone else's freedom aside from prayer. If I choose to exercise my free will by slashing someone's tires, for example, I have limited that other person's freedom.

Tom Frieze
8/12/2009 1:45:29 PM

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But isn't Free Will limited to choosing or not choosing God. Our actions, while maybe of our doing are governed by our choice of accepting or rejecting God. If we choose to accept our actions are governed by our desire to have fellowship with Him and worship Him through our lives. If we choose to not accept Him then our actions are governed by our sinful nature ie. Satan's influence. Here is where Free Will is clear, God allows us to choose, then we will either desire (choose) to serve Him or we reject Him and Satan influences and coerces us into serving our sinfiul nature...Satan. Maybe I am rambling but I think our sinful actions are not our free will in action as much as our servitude to Satan's will for the earth.

Bob Hodges
8/12/2009 2:03:09 PM

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How does Free Will = Freedom? I could gag you and tie you to a wall and yes..I would have drastically changed your freedom, your Free Will(assuming you have any) is intact. In this scenario, the only thing that has changed are the physical boundaries within which you can practice your Free Will.

Bob, if it is true that our Free Will is limited to only two decisions(God or Satan) how would you explain the many non christian individuals credited with great accomplishments(generally good things) that have lived. Are these people guided by Satan in an evil plot that we can not interpret? Or is God guiding these non-Christians....and thereby violating their free will decision to reject him?

Andrew Frieze
8/12/2009 2:10:53 PM

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I am not sure your question is really consistent with the discussion. God is not going to limit creativity or ability of those who do not choose Him, that would basically be forcing everyone to choose Him. Just like he doesn't make it easy for those who do choose Him. The rain falls on the just and the unjust.

8/12/2009 2:16:38 PM

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